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Choose LPCAMM2
Advantages: Users can replace the appropriate size memory sticks (LPCAMM2) according to the usage scenario, and can obtain the Milk-V Oasis at a lower price. There is no need to pay for memory. (Oasis supports 2x LPCAMM2)
Disadvantages: As of July 3, 2024, the global LPCAMM2 production capacity is low, not yet fully popularized, with few purchasing channels and high prices. (Crucial 64GB LPCAMM2 LPDDR5X-7500 memory: $329; Crucial 32GB LPCAMM2 LPDDR5X-7500 memory: $179)
Choose LPDDR5
Advantages: Compared to LPCAMM2, LPDDR5 is relatively cheaper.
Disadvantages: Memory cannot be upgraded. Users need to pay for memory at the time of purchase.
The status for LPCAMM2 appears to be changing quickly. More manufacturers recently publicly announcing new memory products from Computex, so Crucial won’t be able to monopolize for long with premium pricing:
https://semiconductor.samsung.com/dram/module/lpcamm2
https://product.skhynix.com/products/dram/module/lpcamm2.go
https://wccftech.com/geil-ddr5-memory-up-to-8600-mtps-camm2-lpcamm2-cudimm-csodimm/
https://www.aroged.com/2024/05/29/adata-to-unveil-lpcamm2-memory-modules-and-xpg-nia-portable-gaming-system-at-computex-2024/
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/98733/klevv-shows-off-ddr5-10000-rog-and-lpcamm2-memory-alongside-stunning-custom-builds/index.html
There is even a smaller capacity 16GB module available now so LPCAMM2 for under $100 is a certainty:
https://www.longsys.com/products/memory-module/commercial-memory-module/lpcamm2.html
With the outlook changing then, an LPCAMM2-based Oasis would be price competitive with onboard memory if the trend continues, especially if the price tag for the barebones motherboard itself is lowered. Possibly in the future there is a chance it could be cost effective enough to allow the decision to sell the cheapest LPCAMM2 model at a later date on Arace just like the Longsys RDIMM currently in their store, even if not bundled with the Oasis.
I do partially agree that LPDDR5 is a sensible choice for this product.
But personally I am interested in the Oasis to play with some experimental hardware. And LPCAMM2 definitely falls in the category of experimental hardware. I would personally really enjoy messing with LPCAMM2.
When the Oasis is shipped, the prices of LPCAMM2 have most likely decreased at least somewhat already.
The LPCAMM2 can also be seen as a future-proof investment. More boards will likely support it in the future and then you’ll already have some.
So my vote goes to shipping with no memory. Though the decision would be easier if we could get an estimate of how expensive the LPDDR5 memory would be.
LOL, if only it was that simple. It is not really the cost of the new memory itself that is at issue here. The sticking point about the price, now that the situation is understood, is that there are no existing LPCAMM2 memory modules in smaller sizes like 2GB, 4GB to be able to bundle with the motherboard even remotely near the already advertised $120 discount price. The only way at the moment to reach that low price point is to not include any memory. Anyone who has built their own PC is familiar with this situation since that is how it has always been when buying an AMD or Intel motherboard.
No matter what, everyone is going to have to pay for some ram in one way or another in order to having a booting device. It really boils down to whether people want the ease of having soldered-on memory with the board or NOT (and it sounds like the feasibility to have one onboard memory and one LPCAMM2 connector is off the table).
Therefore the key bullet points are:
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Go with LPCAMM2, the board will be offered with no memory installed so users must source it themselves (however the price of the motherboard may even be cheaper. Quote @hoka: “can obtain the Milk-V Oasis at a lower price”)
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Go with soldered memory, the board can be sold with LPDDR5 included and still start at the lower price tier. It is limited to specific memory sizes to select but is more convenient (though one is stuck with the decision - and possibly not have the option to max out the 96GB capability of the SoC)
To Milk-V the cost of the new memory is not that much a concern because they will pass on the cost in all cases, but more of time and effort.
On the other hand buyers ARE sensitive to the price tag and Milk-V understand, rightly so, that low cost is a key factor to attract users right now and achieve a higher demand than other dev boards.
The plan was likely to offer configurations starting with the usual 4GB, 8GB, 16GB options for that reason. To bundle LPCAMM2 now would mean the price has to start out at $300 for a base model with memory. That would be over the $150 threshold for many people to consider purchasing something that is essentially a hobbyist pursuit at the moment, even if you are getting what you paid for. So it would be low volume sales and not worth the trouble to set up the supply chain currently just for the convenience of a few users, especially this late in the game to be able to get a product out by the end of the year. Let’s be realistic, that $120 headline for such a full-featured mini-itx (the PCIe slot and M.2 and SATA ports alone are worth it for their usefulness in development work) is what got thousands of interest. If Milk-V can actually come through on producing and selling the board at this price, the Oasis is going to be in great demand for huge quantities beyond other RISC-V products sold so far (hope they can continue keeping up with production after launch). Oasis would be the first board with a chance to launch RISC-V to the masses because of its affordability and the provided hardware which would help overcome problems that current RISC-V SBC have.
Seems that opinion is pretty split between the two options.
It might be worth considering splitting the product line to accommodate both, but of course I don’t know the finances behind that.
Now, I personally a fan of LPCAMM2. Although, sure, it probably won’t be breaking any speed records compared to current x86 workstations, the SG2380 (on paper) has more than enough compute to function as a lower end workstation or server, roles which, in my opinion, greatly benefit from flexible RAM options, especially given the large up front cost of having to commit to both the Oasis and the required memory for their usecase, rather than allowing them to commit to smaller capacities for testing. I’m also certain that more desktop oriented users would at least appreciate the modularity and would take the platform more seriously if LPCAMM2 was used.
It is also important to remember that, although prices for LPCAMM2 modules aren’t great right now, it likely won’t remain that way for long. Whether or not the price drop will come before the Oasis ships, I don’t know.
The poll on Twitter/X has now ended:
116 votes ; Final results - 45.7% LPDDR5 (53 votes) ; 54.3% LPCAMM2 (63 votes)
When added to the above (ignoring any double votes - where people voted on both)
LPCAMM2: 28 votes
LPDDR5: 26 votes
Would give a grand total (so far) of:
LPCAMM2: 91 votes
LPDDR5: 79 votes
For me the volume of RAM is more important than its speed or price, so any solution that would provide 128 GB is good. If you would ship soldered 128GB LPDDR5 then it would be OK, but if the maximum soldered amount is 64GB then I’ll vouch for LPCAMM2.
(but for now I’ve voted for LPCAMM2)
LPCAMM2 gets my vote it will be awhile before hardware is in our hand and by that point prices will likely drop.
When is the decision going to be made? I am sure everyone is quite curious.
now dimm can already support 6400mhz.
lpcamm2 is so much more expensive than dimm, but it’s only 1100mhz higher.
is it really worth it?
While I do usually prefer to be able to upgrade ram, I think for this particular board, LPDDR5 is makes more sense and I’d be happy to pay for the more ram at time of purchase.
I put my vote on the LPDDR5.
Keen for more updates on the Oasis!
I Choose LPCAMM2
MY VOTE GOES WITH THE LPCAMM2 WITH NO MEMORY INSTALLED.
However the price of the motherboard may even be cheaper
Quote @hoka: “can obtain the Milk-V Oasis at a lower price”
IF WE GET ENOUGHT LPCAMM2 MEMORY WE CAN GET A WHOLESALE PRICES ON THE MEMORY AT A BETTER PRICE.
I’m sorry if this is a stupid question, but is it possible to have both? Like route 8 of the 16 channels to soldered on LPDDR5, and route the other 8 to a LPCAMM2 socket? That way cost conscious buyers could just leave the LPCAMM2 socket unpopulated, but one could buy a 32 GB version of the board and at a later point in time slot another 32 GB LPCAMM2 module in to upgrade to 64 GB total?
I think LPCAMM2 is the better choice, as it will be the first cheaper RISC-V device with removable memory and the base board is going to be cheaper as well. This is perfect for a “Desktop experience”.
Another same board with soldered RAM? Anyone who prefers that can just buy the JUPITER now, right?
Makes no sense to have all boards identical. How about evolving the hardware here and add something new to RISCV like being first with LPCAMM2. Next step is to switch CPUs too.
I voted for LPDDR5. I will definitely not buy this board if I have to invest a few hundred USD just for the memory. Don’t get me wrong, the Oasis will be quite a powerful RISC-V machine, but it is still in no way comparable to modern workstations. Do not get too hyped-up. The software ecosystem will also be limited, at least in the beginning. It is something to play with, to develop for. It is not something I will use for any serious business. Therefore, if the overall costs are too high, it isn’t worth it for me, sorry.
I think it is still better to use LPCAMM2. As it will reduce the cost of the board itself, as well as get rid of the problem caused by the fact that different memory sizes are in different demand.